do it for the joy : jacinta rose

[intro]

So, Jacinta. I wanted to interview you for this project to talk about creativity specifically because – well, the road to success, what that is, what happens when you don't get there, and then that urgency or – need - to keep pursuing our art anyway, right? Can you tell me a little bit about your journey from where you started, what you thought you were going to be when you were dancing when you were younger? 

I discovered dancing when I was around 11 and became quickly obsessed with it. And yeah, I very, very quickly kind of developed a very narrow vision as to what I wanted to do and it was the only thing I could do. 

Which was what?  

Dance. Yeah, ballet was like my main obsession. Like, I wanted to be a ballerina in the Royal Ballet. And anything else was just a distraction.  

The Royal Ballet specifically. 

Typically, yeah. I mean, that's like the ultimate dream for most ballet dancers. As you get older, you start to realise how hard it is to get there. And yeah. And so I went full time when I was 15, I think.  It was pretty hard leaving home. But I was so obsessed. It just sort of didn't matter. That's what I had to do. 

What were your hours of dance? 

All day, every day. 

How long did that dream last? 

A couple years. And I was old enough to start auditioning for other places and I got into this Joffrey Ballet training programme, which was meant to be like a pre professional thing. But I got injured. So I came back. 

I came back from Joffrey’s and finished the year [in Newcastle] but I was injured. And it was a lot for my mental health. I felt so defeated. And sitting down in class when you're injured and watching everyone else – it's really damaging. You blame yourself for being injured and for not being good enough to be doing fast and progressive with everyone else. And so it was just like a big toll on how I thought about myself, which wasn't great for my self-esteem. Which already wasn’t that great as a child, and then I’m going into an environment where I'm completely judged and criticised, kind of compounded the problem. So I split. And found a hospitality job. 

How did you cope with that? 

I was a mess for a couple of years. Really just like, self-medicating. For a few years I didn't dance at all. 

Wow, I can't imagine that now. 

It was like, you know, breaking up with someone and you can't talk to them because they’ve hurt you so bad. You know, like literally it's physically hurting so bad.  

And then you got into physio. Was that a result of your injury? 

Yeah, eventually. I took a while. I actually did like an open foundations course. I hand’t finished year 11 or 12 or whatever it was. I did linguistics and law, thinking that those things interest me, and then ended up doing sport science. The thought of going down another creative path was also a little bit jarring, and I thought, no, it might just break me again because I wanted to do design as well. I thought about doing fashion design and all these creative things, like acting, as well. Yeah, but I thought no, just do something. 

How sensible. Did you feel defeated? 

It's just how it is. I did think, you know, nothing's ever gonna fulfil me as much as dance does. And I didn't have the same discipline at Uni as I had with dance and I thought, it’s just because I don't love it as much. But I have to.  And I just had to push myself a bit. Also, the brain tricks with studying are completely different to being a dancer. 

How did you get back into dance? 

It had been a long time coming, getting back. I just didn't have the space, you know. I connected with some belly dancers, actually, and they had a studio.  

Did you go back to ballet?  

Yeah. No, no, I mean at home, in my kitchen or bedroom. Yeah, I'd do some ballet, but I didn't do classes.  

Do you still have your pointe shoes? 

Yeah. Whenever I move I find them and put them on for a minute. 

So going into contemporary, how was that different than ballet? Was a it a conscious decision to move into that style?  

Yeah, I think actually coming back to Newcastle and doing some classes and kind of... Moving. It felt really good. It was hard and different. I think I just really enjoyed seeing the different ways that the body can move that I haven't sort of discovered or thought of and I wanted to explore that a bit more. 

And is that where you are now? Is it? How did you transition from this deep drive and ambition to – you know, you’re a great dancer. Now where you literally do it like all week, every week, and and it's just for fun. There are no accolades, right? You're not auditioning for anything. You're not going to necessarily get anything out of it, right? It's for you. 

I guess because it feels good is a big, big thing and I feel like understanding my body, the human body is - now having studied it for however many years and you know, you get told a narrative that you, when you get older, you're gonna stop being able to do so much. And I now know that that's bullshit, so I can actually improve, even though I'm approaching 40. Like, I can still improve and be a better dancer than I was when I was 20, and I just want to do that because I want to do it for me. 

How did that happen, though? How did the joy of movement come back to you? 

It's a pretty big part of me. I can't find anything that would replace dance because it's just a part of me. 

Yeah. 

So I have to - explore it. I mean, you know, there are other ways of being in the dance world, like teaching and stuff, but that doesn't appeal to me that much. I just want to do it. I love moving my body and expressing myself.  

And what is the importance, then, to the experience of joy in your body? Like just to do something that you love for no - results. 

That's very important. And I think that like infiltrates through the rest of your life, just teaching your body to feel joy is like just as important as you're dancing itself. Yeah. And being happy with your body because of how you feel, instead of like thinking of what it's doing or how it's looking. That’s embedded in in dance now more so than it ever was. Even though I started doing it because I loved it and it felt good, it became something that I had to criticise and conform, to make it do certain things. Yeah, I guess it's like, you know, when you love something and then you start getting paid for it, it changes the dynamic. I wasn't yet getting paid for it, but I was having to do things that other people wanted me to do. 

And now where you are, it's like in the joy of dance. Do you have regrets or disappointments still? 

Yeah, I still feel like I would love to experience being in a company, but I'm also like, not devastated, you know. If it never happens, I'll be Okay. But it would be a good experience just also being involved with a bunch of people that are constantly creating movement. It could still happen, but I'm not like striving for it. 

So what would you have to say to people that are, you know, in that crossroads. They're desperately wanting to be something that may not be. And then they kind of don't know if they want to do it anymore at all. 

I mean, I would advocate to keep doing it because it brings you joy. I don't know though, like everyone wants to see art as well. And so you might be successful as well. You know, I think just if you've got passion for it... it's hard in this world though, to make a living and do what you want to love. 

Yeah. Like to do what you love. 

But I think the world needs that as well. We don't need more rich people. We need - 

More joyful people. 

Yeah, 100%. And I guess if you can't get to that spot, where are it's making you your living? I feel like doing it the way that you're doing it is almost as good. You know, you’ve got that balance of creative outlet. 

Where it's not actually pressuring you, it's –  

Yeah, that's it. Yeah, the lack of pressure is not taking you to a point where like you need to get anywhere. It can just be. And I can still progress and I can still create challenges for myself within the like smaller capacity that I'm doing. I know this human body so much better now. And I know that it's capable of improving and being challenged. Yeah. And I guess it comes down to really like believing that you deserve to feel that joy.  

That it's not just about other people witnessing it, it's about you experiencing that right?  

Yeah, that's it.  

Thanks. That's perfect.